For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief. Proverbs 24:16
Essentially he stated that this verse was saying that believers do not stay down when they fall but instead they rise up. He then went on to equate the verse as to being proof that once a believer is saved they can never lose their salvation. He did this by equating a “just man” is a “righteous man” and a just or righteous man is saved as per the Bible. I agree that a just or righteous man is saved but this pastor took it to the extreme that if one is saved that they could never lose their salvation.
Never losing one’s salvation is a modern doctrine that goes by the terms OSAS (once saved always saved) or the preservation of the saints.
Before diving in too deep on this subject let me say that I did thank the pastor for the parts of his sermon that addressed the fact that as believers, when we fall we do not stay down, but instead we rise back up.
I am waiting for the right time to approach him with the following concerns though in how he stretched this particular Proverb to include that a person could not lose their salvation.
While the Book of Proverbs definitely has eternal significance and application the core context of Proverbs directly relates to how men ought to live their lives day to day.
The direct contextual application of Proverbs 24:16 in regards to a just man falling and getting up was towards this present life and does not directly point towards an eternal application.
One cannot assume based on this passage alone that the context had anything to do with salvation but instead it is saying simply that men will fall down and that a just man will not stay down.
This pastor went to great lengths to say that the Bible, both Old and New Testaments, states that just men are righteous men and that righteous men are saved. One cannot argue with this as the Bible does indeed define a righteous and just man as saved. But the pastor took the leap to say that righteous (just) men, since they are saved, cannot lose their salvation. He essentially based all of this on Proverbs 24:16 alone where it simply states "a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again".
As always I search the scriptures whenever I hear anyone preach in order to see if what they are saying is true or not. In this case one passage literally jumped in my mind immediately. This passage, unlike Proverbs 24:16, does have direct contextual reference towards righteous men and the status of their salvation in both repentant and non-repentant states.
Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul. Ezekiel 3:20-21
So when Proverbs 24:16 says "a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again", the context here is simply that a just man that falls gets back up.
Ezekiel 3:20 specifically addresses a righteous man willfully going back to his sin even after being warned and thus dying in his sin and his righteousness not being remembered. This has dire consequences in this life and more importantly with eternity.
Ezekiel 3 is not the only place where one would find opposition to the modern doctrine of OSAS. Further below are some examples.
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Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. Galatians 5:4
One cannot fall from something if he were not first in it...
Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. Hebrews 3:12
One cannot depart from someone if they were never with them.
And Moses returned unto the LORD, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold. Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin—; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book Exodus 32:31-33
To add emphasis to this God repeated this concept once again at the end of the Bible. You cannot blot out something from a book if was not in the book in the first place. This is the clear context not trick grammar...
He that overcometh, ...shall be clothed in white raimant, and I will not blot out his name from the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels ...Hlm that overcometh, will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out,I will write upon him the name of my God...and I will write upon him a new name ... To him that overcometh I will grant to sit with me... Revelation 3:5, 12, 21
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit, he taketh away ... if a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gther them and cast them into the fire and they are burned ... continue in my love ... if ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love. John 15:2, 6, 9-10
A branch cannot be cast forth (away from the vine) if it was never attached in the first place. Attached = saved, detached = not saved (i.e. burned in the fire…). If you do not keep His commandments then you are abiding in His love.
These next verses in Hebrews chapters 6 and 10 tend to drive people either mad or into hyper-dispensationalism. Either way you must consider them with much prayer and fasting as they are difficult for sure. Read the Bible cover to cover in a month’s time and with deep prayer you will see the end to end context much more clearer than anyone can deliver it from a pulpit...Let the Holy Spirit guide you on these and not men. I will not even put my two cents in here as this is a matter of the heart and spirit for the individual reader.
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. Hebrews 6:4-6
For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins ... But a certain fearful look for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries ... He that despised Moses' law died without mercy ... how much sorer punishment ... shall be be thought worthy who hath trodden under foot the Son of God and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace ... Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompense of reward ... For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise ... he that shall come, will come, and will not tarry ...if any man draw back, my sould shall have no pleasure in him ... we are not of them who draw back into perdition; but of them that believe unto the saving of the soul. Hebrews 10:26-29, 35-39
Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. 1 Corinthians 924-27
You cannot be a castaway from something you were not a part of in the first place. Paul was a believer and alluded to the potential of him being a castaway...
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 1 Timothy 4:1
You cannot depart from something you were not in in the first place...
Same idea here, if you continue in the faith grounded and settled you will not be moved away from the hope of the gospel. Not as strong in language but it does support the idea that people can choose to walk away and leave the faith they were once in.
And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; Colossians 1:21-23
Some people try to explain this away via dispensational thinking (Old Testament vs New Testament, etc) but God is the same yesterday, today and forever. His Spirit can be taken and King David was well aware of it when he prayed in Psalm 51 for God not to take it away from him.
And the Spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man. And it was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, God gave him another heart: and all those signs came to pass that day. It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And it grieved Samuel; and he cried unto the LORD all night. 1 Samuel 10:6, 9
But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him. 1 Samuel 16:14
And when Saul enquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets. 1 Samuel 28:6
For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog [is] turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire. 2 Peter 2: 20-22
Today we see many accepted doctrines that the first century true church up to the time of Constantine did not accept. The remnant continued to hold to the biblical doctrines as passed to them from Christ through the Apostles and they still do through today. As usual the majority mocks and persecutes them for holding fast to the true doctrines of Christ.
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2 Peter 2:1
Not of works as only the blood shed by Jesus on the cross can save a repentant heart but we must not ever take our salvation for granted.
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Philippians 2:12
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:1-11
Again, the context states that "If you do these things, ye shall never fall". This dictates that if you do not do these things you will.
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Matthew 24:13
If God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee ... Behold the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severty; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness; otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. Romans 11:21-22
Having damnation because they have cast off their first faith ... For some are already turned aside after Satan. 1 Timothy 5:12, 15
...Hymeneus and Philetus who concerning faith have erred ... and overthrow the faith of some. 2 Timothy 2:17-18
...I have kept the faith. 2 Timothy 4:7
For this to be true then it demands the opposite to be true as well (law of non-contradiction…). If you can keep it you can lose it. If you personally cannot lose it then it really is not a matter of you keeping anything.
Let us therefore fear, lest a promise being left us entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it ...let us hold fast our profession… Hebrews 4:1,14
Looking diligently, lest any man fail of the grace of God; ...bitterness trouble you and many be defiled ...fornicator, profane person, Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright ...afterward when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected; for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears ... See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven. Hebrews 12:15-17,25
...some things are hard to be understood, in which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest (twist), as they do other scriptures, unto their own destruction ... beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness. 2 Peter 3:16-17
...he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also ...If that which ye have heard from the beginning remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son and in the Father. 1 John 2:23-24
I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love ...thou art fallen ...repent ...or else I will come quickly and remove thy candlestick... except thou repent ... To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life ...Be thou faithful into death and I will give thee a crown of life ...he that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death… Revelation 2:4-5,7,10-11,16-17,21-26
Many will continue to make the mistake by saying that I am supporting a works based salvation. What Jesus did on the cross is something that no man other than Himself could do. Jesus was God manifested in the flesh. He came to die for our sins as no one else or nothing else can satisfy the debt owed by our sins. It was indeed a free gift for anyone who would accept it.
After the decision is made to accept the gift there are expectations or conditions if you will and they are called fruits. We are the branches spoken of and if we do not bear fruit meet for repentance then we get cut off and thrown into the fire.
I usually have to explain myself further to those who are bent towards defending what is carnal in their lives.
I am not saying a believer has to do anything as they can go on sinning but that will simply equate them as a branch not bearing fruit and thus they will be thrown into the fire by God, the husbandman of the vine.
A true believer sees it more along the lines that they "get to" bear fruit for God. After having been separated from God and then reconciled they really do become a new creature with new desires. Any carnal issues after that will be an occasional slip but not a habitual falling into sin.
It is not by mistake that Jesus and Paul both pointed to the vine and branches as a demonstration within creation as to how God’s plan of reconciliation worked.
If you cannot see it you are not alone as many others today and back towards Calvin’s time missed it as well.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse…Romans 1:20
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2 Corinthians 5:17
For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. Romans 11:16-23
Keep yourselves in the love of God… Jude 21
Am I a heretic then to believe that we cannot keep on sinning so that grace may abound and that God indeed does remove names from His book of life?
Am I a heretic for believing that salvation was provided to us solely by God through His offering of His only begotten Son upon the cross?
Am I a heretic for believing that while I can do nothing to save myself there are conditions given by God in order lay hold of the eternal gift of salvation such as repentance and submitting fully to Him?
Am I a heretic for believing that God's grace is there for true believer who stumbles in sin but does not habitually lives in sin?
Am I a heretic for understanding that anyone who claims to be a Christian and is willfully choosing to live in sin is serving another master while claiming to be serving God?
Am I a heretic for believing that you can not serve two masters?
I will say this, if I am a heretic by the standards that are propped up by today's proponents of the modern day doctrine of OSAS then I would be in the same company every church father up until John Calvin. While I may feel alone when standing in this today I do know that I am far from being the first in believing what God's Word has to say on this matter.
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